More Madson

There is not a ton of new information on the Madson deal since late last night, other than that ESPN.com is reporting that it’s an $8.5 million contract. Either $10 million, or less, it’s a great deal for the Reds. I will keep trying to pin down the number if I was wrong last night.

*Even though they are paying more than they would have likely paid Cordero over one year, they get an upgrade at closer, and a younger pitcher.

*Madson is taking a hit, way down from the four-year deal he seemed poised to sign with the Phillies before the offer was pulled early in the off-season. But he positions himself to re-enter the free agent market next winter. Don’t look for an early extension with the Reds during the season, not with S. Boras driving the negotiating bus for this player.

*Seems funny now how many people complained about the lack of Reds activity during the GM meetings and winter meetings. I often had to remind folks it is a long off-season. Now the Reds are being lauded by some as having the best off-season of all clubs — even the spendy Marlins. With Latos, Marshall and now Madson on board, it’s hard to argue.

*Still nothing coming out of Great American Ball Park yet. There is a 5 p.m. press conference there for Barry Larkin today though and will keep an eye out for the GM to see if he’s willing to discuss the Madson deal. I suppose he has to take a physical in the next day or two.

How do these bullpen choices look to you?

Closer: Madson
LH Setup: Marshall
RH setup: Masset
LH setup: Bray
RH: Ondrusek
RH: LeCure
RH: Arredondo
RH: Brackman

How about the rotation options?

1. Cueto
2. Latos
3. Arroyo
4. Leake
5. Bailey
6. Chapman

*The Reds still have a hole in the LF/fourth outfielder role. Whoever it is, I don’t imagine it will be an expensive signing.

 *Who’s the favorite of the NL Central as of now — Reds, Cardinals or Brewers?

20 Comments

The bullpen and rotation look great and I am sure Walt will make a move to get a solid LF to help Heisey out.

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Madson surprised the crap out of me last night.

I’m kind of curious to see who’s traded (assuming a trade is coming) for the LF…

Plus…. I’m still wondering what’s going on in the Brandon Phillips extension camp…

I think what was disappointing about the winter meetings was that Jocketty raised expectations by saying “there are a few things cooking that should be wrapped up by the end of the week”… then when nothing was done, it was viewed as the typical “all talk / no action” reds move.

Good piece, Mark. You are really on top of things! We all appreciate it. Agree with your thoughts re the club’s configuration, too. The extra outfielder might take a while….probably little money to spend on someone like a Willingham (who they missed and would not have paid $21M for, anyway). But there will be someone that
pops up during spring training -and maybe from within their own current system. Patience is the key. Their pitching staff is vastly upgraded with the addition of Matos, Marshall and Madsen. (Who would have thought it would work out this way?)
Looks like they are primed for a great run at the Div. championship.

Great deal for Madson. It’s only a one year deal so he can enter free agency next year, we know that. The best part about that is that you know he’s going to go all out so he can get that big payday next year. Having a young stud on a contract year is beyond awesome. Ya, I want to extend Phillips, who doesnt, but having a guy like him on a contract year also? This is turning out to be great. I think some of you owe Jocketty an apology. And also, when we start out 6-6, don’t go jumping off the bandwagon, you’re all better than that. At least you should be.
Curt

The pitching staff in general looks great right now. The bullpen is awesome with the additions. I’m just very conserned about Chapman. Trust me, I love this kids makeup. But throwing strikes is not always easy for him. I would love to see them keep him in a mid relief role, because he can come in and shutdown teams for 2-3 innings and keep the Reds in more games. Dusty has to break up Leake and Arroyo in the rotation as well. I’m sure he will.

I feel Heisey is very capable, would like to see them give him a chance to be an everyday player. If you gave that chance to Gomes a couple times, why not Heisey who is far superior in the field and the same, if not a btter hitter.

If they decide not to go that route, I would not mind seeing the Reds bring back Cody Ross. Really good defensively and a good hitter as well.

Mark, do you know if there has ever been any talk of turning Billy Hamilton into an outfielder? Hahaha. Just looking for a guy who swiped over 100 bases in a shorter Minors season last year to make the big club….We could use a full time leadoff hitter and while he is very raw…that type of speed can put a whole lot of pressure on a defense.

im really thrilled now lets get a left fielder and a back up middle infielder and call it a off season and get the ball rolling for 2012 season go redssssssssssssssssss

im really thrilled now lets get a left fielderand a back up middle infielder and call it a off season and get the ball rolling for 2012 season go redssssssssssssssssssss

I think the Reds are now the team to beat in the Central. While St. Louis and Milwaukee have been weakened the Reds (Jockety) have done a commendable job this season building a team for a 1 to 2 year run. The bullpen all of a sudden looks formidable as does the starting rotation. The big question marks there are Bailey and Chapman. I hope this is the season that Homer finally puts together a full season. He’s shown flashes of excellence but so far no consistency. Arroyo needs to bounce back from a poor 2011 but I feel confident he will. Leake continues to impress if used correctly. I hope the Chapman starting experiment works. Lot of money tied up there. I’m looking forward to this season. I think the Reds should be the favorite in the Central. But the biggest caveat will be everyone staying healthy. There is no doubt about the talent this team possesses. I really don’t see a problem with letting Heisey play left field everyday. I think given the opportunity to play everyday he could blossom into a pretty darn good player. I’m rooting for him. But I know we need another outfielder and I agree Mark, he will have to come with an affordable price tag. Well, last offseason was very quiet and this one has been pretty loud. Let’s hope the old addage holds true: The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Curt, the club has an option on the second year, so Madson’s not a free agent in 2013 unless the club cuts him loose, and pays him $2.5 M. Bear in mind – he turns 32 this August.

Yes…but it is a mutual option. Player has to accept as wello.

In answering your last question I would say the Reds are but I said as much on a post to one of the on-line articles discussing Madson’s signing “the Reds are now the team to beat” and incurred a lot of criticism for such an outrageous statement. I will stick by this statement and believe The Reds are the cream of the crop in the NL Central.
One last comment, everyone is concerned about middle infield. I know he does not have much experience but I think Frazier will be an adequate fill in with Janish being a defensive back up. Plus he can fill in as a fifth outfielder. I view the outfield situation as the last area of need. Fill that with an adequate right handed hitter and we should be set. 38 days to start of spring training. I can’t wait.

I think the Reds are certainly improved, but it’s hard not to call the Cardinals a favorite to win the division. I think Wainright will add about as much as Pujols takes away from their win total. With the recent additions, the Reds have a shot at the wild card if the division slips away.

I agree with several posters that Heisey suits me just fine in left field. I’m sure they’ll bring someone into camp, but if given plenty of playing time, I think Heisey can be better than average. I’m anxious to see if Frazier can be our starting shortstop. Will we bring in another veteran to fill that role, or leave it up to Frazier and Janish? If money is wearing thin, maybe the team will be better off signing no one and showing Frazier that we have confidence in him.

I am dying to see how Chapman is going to perform as a starter. Did he pitch any winter ball? Are there any numbers that I can read too much into? If Chapman lives up to the money they’re paying him, I just might have to call the Reds the division favorite… Mark, can you ask us again at the end of Spring Training?

Frazier is not a shortstop except in dire emergency situations. Management has said as much. I think he’ll have great difficulty just making the 25-man roster cut at the end of spring.

No No No. Frazier will easily make this team. As of now, he will be the 4th outfielder and a big time back up at 3B, 2B, 1B and even can play SS here and there if necessary. The guy will probably play LF, RF, 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, LF & RF at some point this year. Janish is going to be the odd man out and truthfully, based on hitting alone, that’s how it should be. Everyone also praises Janish defensively but in my opinion, he played poorly defensively last year. Cozart’s injury last year was a freak one and he looks to be coming back fully healthy. He will start at least 90 games at SS for the Reds this year. Leaving no room for a player like Janish who won’t produce anything as pinch hitter and cannot play the outfield like Frazier. Sorry Denny, but you are seriously undervaluing Frazier here. His versatality would make this team so much better in so many ways. Runners on 1st and 3rd, two outs, bottom of the 8th. Reds down one and the pitcher spot comes up and the only two guys on your bench are Frazier and Janish…..Who would you send in to pinch hit?

Here is where the Reds roster will sit on opening day in my opinion, barring anymore trades. In the current situation Baker would have to keep 13 pitchers on the roster. That means both Brackman and Judy, who are both to young signings that I’m a little excited about, will be a Triple A. I also think they still need to get another outfielder. But then who doesn’t make the big league roster? Which of the pitchers below shouldn’t be on the big league roster or would have to be moved down if the Reds went with 12 pitchers?

C- Hanigan
1B- Votto
2B- Phillips
ss- Cozart
3B- Rolen
RF- Bruce
CF- Stubbs
LF- Heisey
Bench- Mesoraco
Bench- Frazier
Bench- Cairo
Bench- Francisco

SP- Cueto
SP- Latos
SP- Arroyo
SP- Bailey
SP- Leake
RP- Chapman
RP- Masset
RP- Bray
RP- Arrendondo
RP- Lecure
RP- Ondrusek
RP- Marshall
C- Madson

Too many arms in the bullpen. One must go. I assume it’s Chapman, being groomed in the minors for the starting rotation. That creates an extra spot on the bench, so Frazier temporarily becomes more thinkable. However, as you have it now, there is no defensive back-up at short. Frazier may have value as a versatile player, but one thing he can’t do is play shortstop! Got to have Janish’s glove. And I’ve got to go with a back-up outfielder who can give you defensive innings at all three spots. Again, you overestimate Frazier’s capabilities at providing that. So instead of Frazier occupying the fifth and final bench spot, I go with minor league prospect Phipps or, more likely, a new acquisition.

I take defense at short over an extra bat on the bench anytime. And Frazier has not demonstrated that he can hit big league pitching anyway. Just take a look at last year’s underwhelming stats.

Denny and Mike W, I said Frazier when I meant Cozart. I think Cozart should be our answer at SS. Todd Frazier as a 4th or 5th outfielder sounds good to me.
Mike, isn’t the plan to put Chapman in a starting role? Do you think that will happen later in the season or not at all? As I said, I’m really anxious to see how he’ll fit into that role.

For the money they have invested in Chapman, I hope he can become a reliable starter. But, when you ask yourself that question. Do you feel like Chapman could be a reliable starter? I’m not 100% sold, not even 75% sold. Not only that, the possible injuries that would linger with him pitching more innnings also scares me.

Denny, I can see your side on Janish and if he does make the big club right away, he will be there because he can play SS. But Cozart is going to be on the field at SS a ton. I can see Jainsh jumping between Triple A and the majors a ton during the season. But I bet he starts the year in triple A, then will get called up when Dusty wants to give Cozart a break. Frazier would be a decent fill in at SS. He played the position for a long time.

Bottom Line: you always need two guys that can play short. Right now that would be Cozart and Janish. And I wonder how many options a guy like Janish has left if you intend shuttling him between Louisville and Cincinnati?

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